DAN WATTERS ON HOMESICK PILOTS

15th November 2020 / Previews / Comics / Interviews / Image Comics / Homesick Pilots / Dan Watters

DAN WATTERS ON: HOMESICK PILOTS #1

Released: 9th December 2020 / FOC: 16th November 2020

In this interview, Dan Watters (the writer of DC's Lucifer, Deep Roots and Limbo) talks about his latest collaboration with artist Caspar Wijngaard, Homesick Pilots. This is not the first time Dan and I have recorded an interview. Although the others we've recorded will probably never see the light of day...

Dan, good to be talking to you. We have a bit of a track record with interviews going wrong. There was that podcast with you and Ram we did ages ago...

Where we solved all the problems of the universe. We were drinking beer, solving all the problems of the universe, but you'll never hear them. They're not on the podcast because that podcast doesn't exist. If anyone has 'fomo' about that podcast... well, you should!

But we're here now. Talking about Homesick Pilots and FOCs (which we'll get to). I didn't realise – it's been five years since you and Caspar worked on Limbo for Image together. Does it feel that long?

It's a weird one because you know 'time flies by' and all that. But also... I was still at university when we did Limbo. I thought I could do both, comics and academia. That was an insane thing to try to do! I just wasn't prepared for how much time you have to spend selling the book, not just making it. I wanted to try to follow it all the way through, so I'd end up writing papers and teaching. That didn't happen. I'm lucky, though, because I've managed to work in comics ever since leaving University. Plus, it's been a long time since uni.

I always forget that for a man that writes funny books, you're actually quite scholarly!

I'm not a patch on Alex Paknadel! He actually completed his PhD. I'm just nice and pretentious.

I won't hear a word of it. What was the biggest difference you noticed about your collaboration with Caspar this time around? Because I'm not sure if you guys did even short pieces together after Limbo, right?

Well, we managed to do a few short things directly after Limbo. I then stayed pretty much at DC and Cas was at Marvel for most of the time, working on his Star Wars books. I think in that time we both developed our voices and improved. so coming back we had a much better idea of how things worked. It's been really cool to slot those experiences back together and see what kind of creators we are now as opposed to then. Especially since Limbo was our first book, so we had leaps and bounds in development from there. I'd say one of the big differences between now and the Limbo period is how much we were flying by the seat of our pants back then! I had literally no idea how things worked and we were just... working things out on the fly. Now, I've got more stories under my belt. I understand how they work. So going back and working in that similar dynamic – the voice that's created by Caspar and I creating together...which is different to my voice when I'm working with other people... That part of it has been really fun.

Just looking at Caspar's art in Homesick Pilots... it's amazing stuff. The colours are incredible.

Cas has been one of the best colourists working in comics for a while now. The art in Homesick gets better with each issue, especially as Cas gets more comfortable with the story. And gets to draw more explosions! (Laughs).

You've mentioned before that the book is a fusion of both your upbringings...

Well, the era, 1994... That's Caspar's era. He was a kid then. I was a toddler! But the whole thing of high-school punk bands getting up to shenanigans is very much my experience, writ large. Less haunted houses in my life, unfortunately. The characters are definitely amalgamations of people that I knew.

There's a saying about not haunting anyone who isn't already haunted. The character of Ami certainly chimes with that. She's got this incident from her past that we don't know all the details of yet. Was she a tough character to write?

One of the things I love about Ami is she revealed herself to me on the page, largely thanks to Caspar. Same thing happened with Coffin Bound and Dani K, actually. I thought Izzy was in Coffin Bound was going to be a far... 'mopier' character than she turned out. It was only when Dani drew her that I realised just how pissed off and angry she was! Ami is kind of similar. She's 17, she's angry... That's something I remember quite well from my own upbringing. So I didn't find her too difficult to write. Most people have something, some trauma in their life. And you just sort of... Blow that up when you write. Make it bigger.

HAUNTED HOUSES - AND PEOPLE, FOR THAT MATTER - ARE CONTAINERS FULL OF GHOSTS

So, do you feel the ghosts are a representation of that trauma?

I think that's entirely what ghosts are. I get labelled as a horror writer – which is fair - but I consider myself a ghost-story writer first and foremost. I think ghosts are entirely symbolic of our inner turmoil in a Jungian kind of way. I think it's our brain trying to tell us things. Also, I don't think all ghost stories have to be horror stories. The idea I'm trying to explore is that the haunted house is a metaphor for the human head. It's one of the reasons I've talked about 'The Shining' a lot in solicits – the idea that the overlook hotel is Jack Torrance's psyche, blown up and given form as this hotel. Haunted houses are containers full of ghosts and I think that people are containers full of ghosts. We're all haunted – even by things that aren't necessarily traumas. A lot of the idea of Homesick, like the idea of the house that walks, the house walking off like a mecha... our big opening scene, so no spoilers from me talking about it here... springs from the idea that a lot of ghost stories lately have screwed up the idea of ghosts as trauma. They've become about confronting the ghosts and overcoming them. I don't think that's how trauma works at all. I think you have to learn to walk with your trauma. I guess it's then pretty evident where we came with the idea of the house that walks!

It's a great idea. It's funny you mention the Shining. I feel that Kubrick was onto something, saying that all ghost stories are inherently optimistic because ghosts suggest an afterlife.

...Unless you take the opinion that I've just posited (laughs)! No, that's an interesting concept. I don't think writers are interested in analysing that, though. They're more interested in analysing trauma. It's like 'great, we've proved the existence of an afterlife', but we don't really stick around and examine the consequences of that. It's kind of my approach to Lucifer. When we started that book, set in the Sandman Universe, a place that's filled with great and wonderful things. It's full of afterlives and Gods. But it's also a place where hell is real. So it's also full of demons, werewolves and goblins. And there must people who only brush up against that end of the spectrum. For those people, it's a horror show. So it's great that there's an afterlife, but what good is it if it's full of things that only want to do you harm?

But would those things be horrible from a ghost or spirits perspective?

I think if you look at the idea of ghosts as trauma, they're not trying to do anything. They're closer to being a gap in the world than an object in it if that makes any sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

They're something that we can't come to terms with. That's what trauma is. The idea of ghosts has come to work that way – they're spirits that died too soon or people with unfinished business. Maybe my take isn't as positive as Kubricks!

Also, it's a great metaphor for teenagers in a way. For their emotional states and the heightened emotional lives they live.

Definitely. What I remember of being a teenager is everything mattering so much. Everything is life-or-death when you're 17. You end up battling a lot of short-term ghosts. When something bothers you at 17, it takes your whole mind. And it can do that for days and weeks. That's a kind of haunting. Not a romantic form of haunting but something that won't go away and looms over you. I remember a lot of that from when I was 17!

And it actually stays with you for years, some of that stuff.

Absolutely. And when you consider everything to be life-or-death, you react in bigger ways and often in the worst ways. I don't think many people were at their best when they were teenagers. I know I wasn't. Therefore you are going to end up with big things happening in your life that you react badly to.

TEENAGE YEARS ARE THE BEST YEARS OF YOUR LIFE? BULLSHIT!

I get that. I certainly find as I get older, I just want to forget about my teenage years as much as possible.

That whole adage about how those are the best years of your life? That’s bullshit! I remember being a teenager and going “what the hell is the rest of it gonna be like in that case?”

Yes!

It's also nonsense, at least in my experience. I love being an adult. I can do whatever I want!

Makes you wonder if your thirties are actually the best years of your life...

Ha! Well, I'm 30 in two months, so... looking forward to that!

You're young. I hate you. Speaking of the future, do you have the final arc of Lucifer coming up?

Yeah, it's out 2nd February. It's going directly to trade, largely because of COVID.

In what way?

Well, when stores were coming out of the first Lockdown, particularly in the US, I think DC didn't want to deluge them with three months’ worth of floppies, because the production of comics had continued throughout that period. They didn't want to put that much stock on the shelves when retailers were already struggling and readers didn't have as much disposable income for comics. So they made the decision to cut back a little on the floppies.

Understandable.

And because Lucifer was nearing its end anyway, it was an easy decision to go straight to trade for the final arc. But there was no change to the way we created the comic. We got to make it exactly as we wanted and in fact, we got to take a little bit more time, because of the switch and make the ending that much more special. It's an ending I'm especially proud of. Max and Seb Fiumura (the book's main artists) did the final issue together, so we're finishing with the team we started with. There are also two issues in there with art by Brian Level, who I think is one of the best artists working today. And a fantastic tattoo artist to boot! Brian really gets the weirdness of it. We had an hour-long Skype conversation just on the God, Pan because he shows up in one of the issues (laughs)! That volume is something quite special and I hope people don't miss it just because it's not being released in floppies.

I think a lot of people are going the trade / OGN route now. I know DC is moving that way, as are Image. I love this idea of getting complete stories without getting floppies.

The Sandman Universe stuff in particular does seem to lend itself to reading in trade.

I remember. from my days in comics retail, how well those books would sell, especially as the single issues became more sought-after and pricier. Actually, I love both models, who am I kidding? I still buy just as many singles as graphic novels. Comics are an addiction!

They really are.

And one I can't get enough of. Speaking of things we can't get enough of... what's happening with Coffin Bound? You've released the final issue of the second volume recently...

Yeah. Volume two has finished, which means the trade is also coming out in December. So I have three things launching in December! But Coffin Bound... we're taking a break, Dani and I. We've finished the story we planned to tell in that world. It's a distinctive world and we always left it quite loose as to how long it would run. Coffin Bound is about death and accepting death and the ending was quite cathartic for Dani and me as creators. The title is the premise, in a nutshell. Every volume has a different protagonist. Because it's never about how someone avoids the coffin. It's about the inevitable.

It's great to see something that deals with the inevitability of the end, which we're all going to face. Although probably less dramatic for most of us than the characters in Coffin Bound...

Less 'Earth-Eaters'! It was always an interesting way to approach a story. You know, there's this big thing that most of us avoid for as long as we possibly can. And so much adventure or action fiction is life-or-death stakes. Certainly, most superhero fiction is, even if it's just Scorpion knocking Spider-man halfway across Manhattan! So the idea of taking those stakes and just... taking it for granted. We say 'No, this thing is definitely going to happen at the end of this'. At the end of this book, the main character is going to die. We're not talking about they escape their fate.

So, has the book met its own end?

Dani and I had a conversation about what we wanted to do next. Where do we want to take this as creators? And the more talked – this was all this year, by the way – we thought maybe this isn't where we wanted our heads to be at. So the idea of jumping into a ton of research into the darker subjects that tend to be the nexus point for a Coffin Bound book wasn't super-appealing in the year of a pandemic. So we talked about other ideas. And I can say you should expect more from us as a team, but Coffin Bound is done, at least for now.

It's fascinating that the events we're all dealing with have influenced the decision to take a break from that particular story. Do you feel creators have a responsibility to create from the world they want to see rather than the one that's around them?

That's a good question... to get very 'Grant Morrison' about it, I absolutely do think you can manifest things into the world through fiction if we all agree the world is one way. I was just talking to someone the other day about... do you know Schitt's Creek?

I do. I love it.

It's a wonderful show. And it has this wonderfully natural approach to queer characters, that should be the norm, but isn't. And for people who aren't used to queer characters or perhaps aren't dealing with that aspect of society... the show makes you fall in love with the characters first, then reveals those aspects of their lives, which makes it less 'scary' if you like for viewers who wouldn't have necessarily been ok with it. So you can manifest things... into the world and show the world being more like the way it should be, where people don't treat other people's humanity like it's not real... I think that's very important.

That said, I would be wary of talking about the 'responsibilities of art'. Other than not doing harm, which I think is a responsibility that human beings have, I don't know that art intrinsically has responsibilities or that should be a measure of art. I'm not saying it should be irresponsible, but art can be used for a multitude of purposes. So saying it has a responsibility lessens it in some cases. I think the point of art, from my perspective, is to make something that connects to people in a way that would be hard in other ways. So you're trying to talk about ethereal things – feelings – that aren't so easy to put into words. That's what I think art is for. I think that's what makes it a noble pursuit. (Pause). Sorry that question has sent me off in about ten different directions! (Laughs).

I think – and I've only just realised this in the last few years – that art is a mirror, not a telescope. It shows you how we are living, not how to live. However, the characters are the telescope, in a way. Overall the art's responsibility is to show you how the world is. But then it's up to the characters to decide where that world goes.

I wonder if sometimes it's the opposite way, too? I once did a story where the protagonist was the villain. They had this noble adventure and then did something heinous at the end of the story and I saw one person get really upset - 'how can you make me feel empathy for someone like this? They did something cruel and abusive'. But the idea that the world should bend to show the character like that all the time, or that people will show the whole of themselves all of the time... People are multifaceted. Bad people will do good things and they'll do them for good reasons. It's important for us to remember that because then we're not caught out. If we just expect bad people to be bad the whole time...

Sure. And certainly, it would mean they would be no surprises in fiction if that was the case. Speaking of surprises, you said you had three books out in December. What's the third? I'm intrigued.

It's called 'The Picture of Everything Else'. It drops the week after Homesick Pilots, 16th December. I'm working with Kishore Mohan, who was one of the artists on Ram V's breakout book, Black Mumba. We'd been looking for something to do together and we had a pitch all ready to go. But then I had the idea for this, so I and to go back to Kishore and say “I really think you're the best artist for this, Do you mind if we throw out that entire pitch and do this together instead?” (Laughs). Luckily, he was really excited by the idea! Kishore does these beautiful watercolours, which is one of the reasons I've wanted to work with him for so long. I'm really excited to be doing this book with him.

Can you tell us about the story?

It's a sequel to The Picture of Dorian Gray, which picks up with entirely different characters a few years after the novel. You don't have to have read the novel, though. I saw the potential for a direction that the novel doesn't explore, so I wanted to go into that world and tell a story. We're working with Aditya Bidikar as well, who letters all my creator-owned work. He's amazing. He always puts a real flavour into every book. He never does the same thing twice!

I'm pretty sure I've typed his name into the website, the articles and podcasts, more than any other letterer at this point.

Oh, he's a machine! It's Ram and I's plan to burn him out! (Laughs). But the book itself is a horror book, it's about the turn of the century, the arc of history and the way things are going and whether things get better or worse as history progresses. I'm having a lot of fun working on it, even though it's more research work than I've ever done on a single book! It's set in Paris in 1900... so, we're trying to get that as accurate as possible.

Is this part of the next wave of White Noise Studio books through Vault?

Yes. Alex has kicked this second wave off with Giga -

Which was our pick of the week. Terrific book.

Yeah, I'm really pleased with this batch of releases. Alex has Giga, Ryan O'Sullivan has Dark Interlude, I have The picture... And Ram's book hasn't been announced! We're really happy to be re-partnering with Vault.

I love what Vault is putting out right now. The White Noise Studio books are really strong. All very challenging, all very different. Ram's being very coy about his book, as you say!

He's teased a bit of it. If you go back through his Twitter!

I always feel lucky because occasionally, when we've been down the pub or you guys have come into the shop when I was working there, you guys have always given me sneak-peeks at what you're doing. I remember... it must have been over a year ago now, seeing some of Homesick Pilots. Caspar gave me a look at some of his art.

We're total narcissists!

You're doing it everywhere! Going from store to store...

Not even comic stores. When we're in Tesco... “Look how pretty this art is!”

“Let me tell you about this idea I've had...”

“Have you read 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'? Wait.. where are you going? Come back!”

WE’D LIKE TO KEEP MAKING THIS BOOK FOR AS LONG AS WE CAN

Speaking of selling books, can we talk about FOCs?

Let's do it.

So, for the readers, FOC means Final Order Cutoff. It's the point at which comic shops have to get their orders in for a particular title. Stores base their order numbers, partly, on how many people pre-order a title for either their pull lists or just to pick up on release day. It's important for retailers. It really helps them if people pre-order. And it's become more important for retailers now, because of the havoc that COVID is wreaking on bricks and mortar shops.

Right. The FOC for Homesick Pilots is Monday, 16th November, so you can email or call your store now and get one ordered! FOC numbers define our print-run, which defines how many books we have flying around out there. And of course, the more we can get the book in front of people, the better the chances of us making more of them and continuing on beyond the first volume. We'd really like to keep making this book for as long as we can. We're starting on the second volume now, so it's planned as an ongoing. Unless things become catastrophic, we're aiming for three volumes in the first instance!

I think I'd be down for three volumes of this.

Thanks. Some of that is very much down to this FOC so if you like the look and sound of the book, please let your LCS know because that helps everyone involved! As you've pointed out, now that things are tight globally, retailers don't want to end up with excess stock on the shelves. FOC is the big thing for comics, really.

I have to say, I pretty much pre-order everything now. COVID has made it such a factor. It's a shame you can't go in and browse as much. I love flicking through all the great art every week. And this is a fantastic looking book. I really loved that first issue, mate. I'm really grateful that you sent it to me for an advanced look.

My pleasure.

I'll definitely be picking it up on release day. Finally, we have to mention the DC books you've got coming up besides Lucifer.

Yeah, I've got Superman and Wonder Woman: Future State in January.

You're going to surpass Ram's output for 2020!

I won't. I know what he's got planned! (Laughs).

Dan, thanks for giving up so much of your time to do this today. I'm looking forward to reading and writing about your books.

Always a pleasure. Thanks.

You can preorder Homesick Pilots #1 now from your local comic book store. It's out on 9th December 2020 from Image Comics. The Picture of Everything Else follows from Vault Comics is available on 17th December 2020. Superman / Wonder Woman: Future State will begin on 13th January 2021 in the UK and 12th January 2021 in the US, with the final arc of Lucifer in TPB available on 2nd February 2021.